Nephew/aunt marriage - ASHKENAZI-TREVES/SHAPIRA

[David Gelerinter]

X-No-archive: yes
I was tracing my line and ended up at the same place, two different
ways and was scratching my head over how. I finally took a step back
and figured out that I have a nephew and aunt marrying each other.

Matityahu and Marianne ASHKENAZI-TREVES, based on my info (and Geni
seems to confirm) had two daughters: Miriam and Vergentlin. Miriam
married Shmuel SHAPIRA. They had a son Shlomo. Shlomo married
Vergentlin.

Does this make sense? Can anyone verify that they know about this from
elsewhere? If so, fine, I can move on. Geni.com seems to imply this is
the case as well. It just strikes me as odd so I wanted to call it out
and ask if anyone has any information one way or the other regarding
this.

Thank you,

-Dovie Gelerinter
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[Alan Greenberg]

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[Barbara S Mannlein]

X-No-archive: yes
The subject of cousin marriages and uncle-niece marriages have been discussed
before on JewishGen.

They are not forbidden by Jewish law. In fact, if you study the genealogies of
leading rabbinical dynasties, you will see the frequency of such marriages.

Cousin marriage does have certain advantages, in terms of property and
inheritance, and ensures a compatible background, especially in societies
that are conscious of "pedigree". And it's not unheard of to have more
than one generation marry cousins. (It makes for an interesting dynamic
when the parents, who are cousins, try to dissuade their children from
marrying cousins.)

Post by David Gelerinter
I was tracing my line and ended up at the same place, two different
ways and was scratching my head over how. I finally took a step back
and figured out that I have a nephew and aunt marrying each other.
Matityahu and Marianne ASHKENAZI-TREVES, based on my info (and Geni
seems to confirm) had two daughters: Miriam and Vergentlin. Miriam
married Shmuel SHAPIRA. They had a son Shlomo. Shlomo married
Vergentlin.
Does this make sense? Can anyone verify that they know about this from
elsewhere? If so, fine, I can move on. Geni.com seems to imply this is
the case as well. It just strikes me as odd so I wanted to call it out
and ask if anyone has any information one way or the other regarding
this.

Barbara Mannlein
Tucson, AZ

MODERATOR NOTE: As Barbara has noted this has been discussed before in
this forum. To view message archives, see
http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~archpop
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Get ready to Rock & Roll in Cleveland. Online registration for the 39th IAJGS
International Conference on Jewish Genealogy closes at midnight CST on July 20.
See www.iajgs2019.org for details about the conference.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Watch JewishGen's video -- click here:
http://youtu.be/nASSn4rDXh4
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Planning to use Ancestry.com? Start by using the "Ancestry Search Box"
on the JewishGen homepage.
By doing this, any eventual subscription to Ancestry.com will result in
Jewishgen receiving a commission.
It's an easy way to help JewishGen!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Support JewishGen with a contribution to the JewishGen General Fund!
http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sign up for the JGFFAlert!
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgff/jgff-faq.html#q3.7
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Join our mailing list at http://lyris.jewishgen.org/ListManager if you
would like the convenience of receiving all soc.genealogy.jewish posts in
your mailbox, instead of having to search for them in the newsgroup, whose
content may not be consistently carried in its entirety by all providers.

[David Gelerinter]

X-No-archive: yes
All, based on the replies I'm getting, it is apparent that my request
was not clear. I will try again.

I know that Jewish law allows uncles and nieces to marry and does not
allow aunts and nephews to marry. I wasn't asking if this union was
permitted. I was specifically asking about it since it seemed
impossible to me for this to happen. I'm wondering if anyone has
specific information about this family that would shed light on the
situation.

Perhaps the aunt was only a stepsister. Perhaps the son was adopted.
Perhaps the information is wrong. I don't know.

This all happened in the 1300s and I'm not sure of locale, so not even
sure where to start looking for actual documents.

Dovie Gelerinter

Post by David Gelerinter
I was tracing my line and ended up at the same place, two different
ways and was scratching my head over how. I finally took a step back
and figured out that I have a nephew and aunt marrying each other.
Matityahu and Marianne ASHKENAZI-TREVES, based on my info (and Geni
seems to confirm) had two daughters: Miriam and Vergentlin. Miriam
married Shmuel SHAPIRA. They had a son Shlomo. Shlomo married
Vergentlin.
Does this make sense? Can anyone verify that they know about this from
elsewhere? If so, fine, I can move on. Geni.com seems to imply this is
the case as well. It just strikes me as odd so I wanted to call it out
and ask if anyone has any information one way or the other regarding
this.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Get ready to Rock & Roll in Cleveland. Online registration for the 39th IAJGS
International Conference on Jewish Genealogy closes at midnight CST on July 20.
See www.iajgs2019.org for details about the conference.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Watch JewishGen's video -- click here:
http://youtu.be/nASSn4rDXh4
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Planning to use Ancestry.com? Start by using the "Ancestry Search Box"
on the JewishGen homepage.
By doing this, any eventual subscription to Ancestry.com will result in
Jewishgen receiving a commission.
It's an easy way to help JewishGen!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Support JewishGen with a contribution to the JewishGen General Fund!
http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sign up for the JGFFAlert!
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgff/jgff-faq.html#q3.7
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Join our mailing list at http://lyris.jewishgen.org/ListManager if you
would like the convenience of receiving all soc.genealogy.jewish posts in
your mailbox, instead of having to search for them in the newsgroup, whose
content may not be consistently carried in its entirety by all providers.