Maiden name on documents

[Shirley Muhlstock Brodt]

X-No-archive: yes
A 1939 Dutch document shows the following for my father's first wife,
Mina Rosen, with her parents' information as follows:

Dochter van: BIRNBAUM recte ROSEN Mordko en van: BLEICH Sara.

Are Birnbaum and Rosen the surnames of her father's parents? If so, why was Mina's
maiden name Rosen and not Birnbaum, and how can one know if Rosen was the surname
of Mina's grandfather or grandmother? Also, why is Sara's surname shown only as
Bleich?

On that same document, my father's mother is shown as FRANKEL recte (or recta)
GERSTL, Reisel. The same questions apply to Reisel's surname.

How are compound surnames to be interpreted from documents from the 1930s and
1940s? Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.

Shirley Muhlstock Brodt
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[Phyllis Kramer]

X-No-archive: yes
Shirley Brodt found: "A 1939 Dutch document shows the following for my
father's first wife, Mina Rosen, with her parents' information as follows:
Dochter van: BIRNBAUM recte ROSEN Mordko en van: BLEICH Sara.
Are Birnbaum and Rosen the surnames of her father's parents? If so, why was
Mina's maiden name Rosen and not Birnbaum, and how can one know if Rosen was
the surname of Mina's grandfather or grandmother? Also, why is Sara's surname
shown only as Bleich?"

Shirley, to answer your question first understand that Jews in Eastern
Europe often married religiously, rather than civilly.
In those cases, sometimes the children used their father's surname,
even though they were supposed to use their mother's maiden name.

Rechte (often abbreviated r.) means "legally" or "correctly" or "corrected".
Example: Brown r. Cohen means Cohen is the legal name, but using Brown..
False often meant falsely used, an individual might be using the father's
surname but officially should be using the mother's surname due to lack of the
required civil marriage. Example: Brown f. Cohen might mean the person used
Cohen (father's surname) but Brown is the legal name (mother's surname).

I like to use this shortcut...and think of the terms as "really"
surname and "falsely" surname.

So your document reads daughter of BIRNBAUM "really" ROSEN, thus
giving the surnames of both parents.

Happy hunting!

Phyllis Kramer, New York City, Palm Beach Gardens, Fla
V.P.Education, JewishGen Inc: https://www.JewishGen.org/education
Researching (all Galicia) ...KRAMER, BEIM from Jasienica Rosielna
...SCHEINER, KANDEL from Strzyzow & Dubiecko
...LINDNER, EICHEL from Rohatyn, Burstyn
...STECHER, TRACHMAN from Nowy Zmigrod, Dukla
family web site: https://KehilaLinks.JewishGen.org/Krosno/Kramer.htm

MODERATOR NOTE: Thanks to Phyllis for suggesting a good mnemonic. It is also
a good idea when one has questions to look at the JewishGen Discussion Group
Archive of messages. There are quite a few postings regarding recte. To search the
archive go to: http://data.jewishgen.org/wconnect/wc.dll?jg~jgsys~archpop
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[Odeda Zlotnick]

X-No-archive: yes
I am assuming the details in the Dutch documents were copied from older
documents - Austrian or Galician because it was in the Austro-Hungarian empire
that they used these complicated "recte" registrations.

I don't know much of Dutch documents, but I know maiden names were kept -
without additional terms like "recte" or "false"
" BIRNBAUM recte ROSEN Mordko" means that although Mordko calls himself
BIRNBAUM - (presumably his father's surname) - the authorities do not accept
that as his correct name, he is "correctly" ('recte') to be called ROSEN. Now,
ROSEN could be his mother's surname, but it could also be his paternal
grandmother's surname - as happened with one of my ancestors - whose father
was Blass, grandfather was Blass and great grandfather was Blass - but he was
registered under the maiden name of his great grandmother, because the
authorities did not accept the legality of the great grandparents' ritual
marriage. Confusing - but interesting and giving us historic maiden names.

The same applies to your father's mother's name: The authorities do not accept
FRANKEL as her father's surname.

Odeda Zlotnick

Post by Shirley Muhlstock Brodt
A 1939 Dutch document shows the following for my father's first wife,
Dochter van: BIRNBAUM recte ROSEN Mordko en van: BLEICH Sara.
Are Birnbaum and Rosen the surnames of her father's parents? If so, why was
Mina's maiden name Rosen and not Birnbaum, and how can one know if Rosen was
the surname of Mina's grandfather or grandmother? Also, why is Sara's surname
shown only as Bleich?
On that same document, my father's mother is shown as FRANKEL recte (or recta)
GERSTL, Reisel. The same questions apply to Reisel's surname.
How are compound surnames to be interpreted from documents from the 1930s and
1940s? Thank you in advance for any help you can offer.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Many highlights of the IAJGS 2018 Warsaw Conference are available
ON-DEMAND!. For information visit
www.on-demand.iajgs2018.org
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Watch JewishGen's video -- click here:
http://youtu.be/nASSn4rDXh4
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Planning to use Ancestry.com? Start by using the "Ancestry Search Box"
on the JewishGen homepage.
By doing this, any eventual subscription to Ancestry.com will result in
Jewishgen receiving a commission.
It's an easy way to help JewishGen!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Support JewishGen with a contribution to the JewishGen General Fund!
http://www.jewishgen.org/jewishgen-erosity/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Sign up for the JGFFAlert!
http://www.jewishgen.org/jgff/jgff-faq.html#q3.7
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Join our mailing list at http://lyris.jewishgen.org/ListManager if you
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content may not be consistently carried in its entirety by all providers.